[MC-84274] Armor Stand Item Positions

I created some cool things in Minecraft using Armor Stands then I opened the world on 15w31c and then the armor stands got messed up?

Is this a bug or a change?
If its a change, me no likely 😞

I have images

Linked issues

is duplicated by 2

MC-95919 1.9 Seems to break decorative armour stands holding certain items. Resolved

MC-96416 Items, blocks and heads held by ArmorStands rendered incorrectly Resolved

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Comments 20

user-f2760 2015-07-31T14:32:15Z

can you show images in which the armorstand is visible too?

Camezonda 2015-07-31T14:53:02Z

Here are the armor stands visible 🙂

Panda4994 2015-07-31T14:56:51Z

@unknown had a nice graphic showing some of the changes in her video: https://youtu.be/z6JElCK7Gms?t=40s

user-f2760 2015-07-31T14:57:08Z

their left arm right arm are switched around maby?

Meri Diana 2015-07-31T15:00:56Z

I can confirm
I don't like the new positioning of the items either, and I'm not the sole CommandBlocker whose creations broke in 1.9.
Anything that is not a full block gets shifted to the back of the ArmorStand (see my attached pictures).

But it's not only the offset, it's also the optics of some items now.
Even if the thinner pressure plate optics is intended for 1.9, look at the attached picture where I show a creation with Lapis dye.

In 1.8 it creates a perfect circle, in 1.9 it has got a thinner "bottleneck" on top.
I didn't have time yet to see if the ArmorStands hold items in another angle in 1.9, so it might be not only lapis dye looking different now.

But it surely broke not only my aesthetical creations, I already heard from other CommandBlockers that their custom mobs and similar also broke in 1.9, due to the offset of the headslot etc.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6JElCK7Gms

Regards, Meri

10 more comments

user-f2760 2015-07-31T15:02:40Z

that's a change they made so all items would render corectly above mobs' heads

Camezonda 2015-07-31T15:09:26Z

The angle of items has changed, because this was meant to be a chair (image attached)

Meri Diana 2015-07-31T19:59:16Z

@Fvbico: They might have their reasons, but AT LEAST it should not be offset to the BACK of the ArmorStand.
I can understand they changed it to be at the same height like the ArmorStand "neck", although I dislike it a lot (as Custom Command Creationist)..
But why then offset to the back of the ArmorStand, not at least in the very middle of the "neck"?
That way it would be maybe sort of still possible for us Command Creationists to continue with our creations..

@Cameron Spicer: Oh man @ that chair creation..
Then I understand why there is that "bottleneck" at the top of my lapis dye circle..
I've got no idea if I can fix that offset properly.
Dealing with proper positioning of items in the hand slot was already a huge pain in 1.8, but I somehow found out the correct values over time..
But now in 1.9, it's completely off.

I hope Mojang considers changing at least the offset for items towards the back of the ArmorStands (see my attached Screenshot), or it'll be a hard time for us.

I'll just wait a few Snapshots and have a closer look at how the positioning of the hand changed, maybe there's a way to easily deal with at least this offset.
The head slot item positioning really should be in the very middle, or it makes no sense to me to display items there with visible ArmorStands.
The only thing I could think of is that the items get displayed at the very edge of the ArmorStand, so if the ArmorStand is invisible, the items would be basically flush with a wall..
But that's all speculation by now, sorry for rambling, it just really was not a good change there for many of us }=/

Regards, Meri

Erik Broes 2015-07-31T20:36:10Z

Slightly different positions since we repositioned everything, including those.

Meri Diana 2015-07-31T20:49:40Z

Mr. Broes, these are not SLIGHTLY different positions.
Can we at least have a reason why it got repositioned?

If the positionings stay like that in the head slot and are not middled, it will be very hard or even impossible for custom creationists to continue with what they were doing before.
For the handslot, there might be a workaround, but I don't think there'd be one possible for the head slot.

Please reconsider, or at least tell us the reason for the new positionings.

Thank you very much in advance,
Regards, Meri

PS: At least please consistency.
In case we can adapt to the repositioning changes, and you decide next version it needs to repositioned again, it'll be again custom creations only working for a single Minecraft version.

Panda4994 2015-07-31T20:59:10Z

@@unknown
I get that there are repositions and I agree for the most part that they are a good thing.
But the one in the head slot of an armor stand which is visible in the bottom right of

[media]

doesn't make sense and breaks stuff.
That the item is higher is good and is something we can adapt to, but why isn't the item in the center of the armor stand, but instead set back?
Please consider changing that unless there is a good reason.

Thank you 🙂

Erik Broes 2015-07-31T21:12:24Z

They are positioned as if a player wears them on their head. And most of them were modeled after where the banner ended up as it looked good.

Panda4994 2015-07-31T21:16:13Z

@@unknown
Yes, it looks good for players/mobs. I fully agree with that.
But not for armor stands. For armor stands it would look good if they were centered and enable people to keep doing their creations.

Thanks a lot for replying 🙂

NeunEinser 2015-07-31T21:33:09Z

@@unknown
I actually think we are not the only ones who think, that change is really gamebreaking and not just a slight Change.
This breaks a whole bunch of Adventure Maps and some cool and creative contraptions.
Why did the block positioning changed like that? I don't understand the reason if you don't tell that to us. And you must have a big reason to break so many contraptions.

~NeunEinser

Jaime Fernando Echeverría Pinto 2015-08-02T16:10:27Z

Obviously I'm currently in agreement with most of the people here. Taking the item in hand situation into account would take me ages. But at the very least I can say something about the head situation. I'm sure you're aware of the recent popularity of command block based mechanisms that have been utilizing armorstands to the extreme of their capacities.
As it turns out some of these are very specific in their placement and the changing of certain values on the heads for items might mess up many of them. But that aside, I took the time to see what the differences were in items that were considered viable in the previous update to be worn on heads. For the most part I have issue with it. You fixed one issue with an axis offset that was out of place, however I'm confused as to why you decided to change the offset of the items like this. I am thoroughly unconvinced at the moment that the changes done to armorstand head offset was fully intentional, and instead believe it was a side effect of the changes done to mobs and armor wearing things.
In my first picture is all the blocks and "block items" (without 3D rendering in hand) placed on zombies and armorstands respectively, with one item that it held in hand differently (blaze rod) and a regular item (diamond) to observe any other possible adverse affects these changes may have made without obvious outcomes. Some are clearly missing simply because some are just very similar or simply have different data values.
The reason I am unconvinced this was intentional for armorstands is the following: In my first and second images of close up zombies, you can observe the new End Rod item placed on their heads, clearly a cute reference to a unicorn mob. Which I approve of, it's hilarious. The other close up shows something similar with fence gates, possibly a Lone Ranger idea for darker types of wood, which I also approve of.
I do NOT approve of the imaged 4 and 5 of close up armorstands. If the changes done to the heads of armorstands was truly intentional, then you must've intended for this strange, VERY custom offset in a strange angular way specifically for armorstands as well, and this was NOT a side effect of just having a little fun for the mobs themselves. This, along with the claim that this is a result of banner placement on the armorstand heads allows me to conclude that due to time constraints and deadlines and workload these changes were missed or ignored as part of the process as to see what mattered most and what had most priority. Because if this were truly only because of banners, then why does it need to affect all items, yet not blocks or these two very special cases? Banners on armorstands already look strange, but these special cases simply cannot allow me to believe that this was actually intentional, and insist that this wasn't truly the intention for armorstands, only for mobs. I hope to see this issue as at least "to be resolved" because I am still not convinced it was all intentional.

~RPGgrenade

Erik Broes 2015-08-03T05:28:01Z

Armorstands are supposed to be a drop-in replacement for a humanoid model, everything it is wearing should be in exactly the same position as it would be on a humanoid.

This works really well for things that are 'big' (like blocks and armor) and less good for the smaller things that depend more on the dimensions of the humanoid model (like 'flat items in hand' and now 'flat items on head').

Since we never allowed for normal items to show in the headslot, the few 'flat items' (flowers, panes, saplings, repeaters, hopper, etc) were not giving any love positioning wise.
This changed in the recent snapshots. We now allow any item to be shown in the headslot and we decided that the proper position for these items was like the banner, at the back of the head of a humanoid.
We also had a bit of fun positioning some items slightly different for comical purposes, this includes but not limited to fencegates and end rods.

Since a majority of the items you can wear on your head are flat items now, having them positioned correctly and consistently is what we've chosen for. This inadvertently also 'breaks' your contraptions.

Please keep in mind that any user with resourcepack providing custom positioning for these items would also 'break' them.

I see two ways of solving your issues.

1) Make a resourcepack to position any item where ever you want.
2) Accept the new positions and if you want to keep creating these exact sculptures simply offset the model as required. (or find new creations to make using the new offsets and accept that in the future the default position might change again)

Meri Diana 2015-08-03T05:59:08Z

Mr. Broes, I don't know why "the few 'flat items' (flowers, panes, saplings, repeaters, hopper, etc) were not giving any love positioning wise" was a problem in 1.8 before?
I could perfectly position them in an ArmorStand, small+normal-size: http://puu.sh/jnoZj/0e5ee19b25.jpg

The argument "any user with resourcepack providing custom positioning for these items would also 'break' them" is not valid, because the majority doesn't fiddle with such elaborated ones, unless specific resourcepacks for maps or similar, outside of any regular SMP or SSP world.

The most used resourcepack is Default, and the others who are used mostly aside from Default don't have this "custom positioning" either or are used by Vanilla Let's Players who don't care about the Creative aspect.

You know human beings very well, most won't accept to go through the "pain" to download a resourcepack and use it JUST to see our creations properly.

To your offered "solutions"/statements:
1) It will be close to impossible to offset all models into 1.9.
2) That the default position might change again in the future doesn't sound well.

Argumenting makes no sense anymore I guess, as there's no way to change your mind anyways, it seems.

Celthim 2016-01-31T16:43:49Z

What's the point of destroying more than a year of work of a lot of players for a useless change ?!
Minecraft is a creation game and the armorstand you added is a beautiful tool for this.
And now you destroy all these creations ?
Really ?
Your goal is to improve the game or to frustrate your community ?

In 1.7 the metadatas were used a lot for beautifuls creations and you ruined everything without any precaution.
Now you ruin a year of armorstands creations..
Why ?!

user-f2760 2016-01-31T17:16:49Z

A lot of things break in 1.9, not only armor stand creations, playsound, tellraw, title, signs, boats, a lot has changed and isn't compatible/the same as in 1.8 and earlier, it's simply up to the community to update their creations.

As for the metadata they were aiming for a long time to remove it (and it will be removed in 1.10)

Meri Diana 2016-01-31T19:04:20Z

@unknown As you can see with my comments, I was far from delighted myself, being an AS creations creator myself and argued with Mr. Broes extensively about the change.
Mojang didn't confirm it, but I suspect due to the EULA changes (after parents of exploited kids complained to Mojang that they got ripped of some paid servers) minigame servers such as e.g. Hypixel aren't allowed to give their VIPs any perks that would give them an advantage in a game (e.g. better starters equipment in those minigames) - so the perks those supporters get are at maximum rather on the visual side.

In 1.8 not all items could be displayed in the headslot - in 1.9 they can.
In 1.9 items were in the middle and deeper on the headslot, now they are positioned so they are directly at the playerhead's back, which allows for some neat visuals, also for mapmakers (not only for minigames servers).

Believe me, I'm also not happy about that change, but I'm way more upset that I didn't get to know the real reason behind the change };]
By now, I accepted it and I suggest you do the same.
As @unknown already pointed out, there were SO many changes from 1.8 to 1.9 anyway, commands, tags, new CommandBlocks revolutionizing everything, that one is forced to make an overhaul of all creations anyway.

As quickfix for displaced AS positionings, you could adjust the according JSONs, the positionings, and force a resourcepack, if you have no time to find the new positionings for your creation, but need to get out e.g. a map real quick.

Whining or hating doesn't lead to anything, only to more sorrow on both sides.
The only thing one can always do is trying to make the best out of a new situation - I like that I can have all items now in the headslot of AS, it gives me more possibilities of AS creations.
And I also managed to change 1.8 creations into 1.9, and some more are now possible which weren't in 1.8, and it might be that some 1.8 won't be possible at all in 1.9..

That's life, the only constant in life is change, no matter whether I/we like it or not.

Regards, take care, Meri