Old caves, ravines, noodle caves, and underground structures don't generate properly above layer 0

Caves are generated mostly only below -30 altitude. At the same time, only single caves-tunnels are generated near the surface.
Images proving this:

Y=13

Y=-38

beta 1.16.230.54 has some of the caves generating as before (referencing seed 1600331202) however the dungeon and spawners are still blocked over in world generation (dungeons above y16 are filled in/destroyed by world generation. the cave system where the dungeons could be found is generating again, at lease on 1600331202 seed.

Dungeon generation in 1.16.230.54 beta is still broken. see my screenshots above.. cave generation next to where the dungeon was is forming correctly now. Just missing dungeon generation (image above shows the side by side double skeleton spawner) the cobblestone, mossy cobblestone floor, 3 loot chests and 2 skeleton spawners side by side on same y level 3 spaces between the spawners that are on the same x coordinate are not generating and instead is being replaced and filled with Stone and ores and gravel, which is still broken for world generation.

above is with the experimental and caves/cliffs switches in off position

with experimental and caves/clifs turned on (all switches).. the caves do not generate at all above y12 and 1.16.230.54 beta is still just as broken as previous builds.

Just for clarification for anyone else who might be confused, this bug also includes caves that would normally run up to the surface of your world.

I'm confirming this has been an issue for me for a while. I feel like this bug takes a big priority since the game is much harder to play when you can't access caves without digging to -30. Also not sure how they didn't catch this bug before extending the upper and lower limits of world generation.

1.16.230.56 beta has replaced known cave system in above seed 1600331202 with a water cave, dungeon generation of double skeleton spawner is still destroyed at 1271, 46, -485 (see image of double spawner above); Dungeons are still being destroyed and replaced by random block/ore fill, and now cut into with a partial water cave. this is world destroying when you have a built world that no longer can be used due to new world generation mechanics.

Expected results, dungeon and cave generation as in 1.16.220 generation with caves enhanced by the Caves and Cliffs updates, not destroying dungeons and cave systems by Caves and cliffs update.

Observed results: caves and cliffs in 1.16.230.56 beta is still destroying known locations of dungeons in seeds, destroying cave generations of 1.16.220, destroying playable worlds which have been created using known locations of world generation.

Overwriting of existing carver generation is a touchy issue. The development team should prioritize preserving existing carver generation. Noise caves should interact with the carver caves without overwriting them.

Suggestion: Noise caves above y=0 should only generate where they don't overwrite a carver cave. Now, this would make noise caves smaller and rarer above y=0, but maybe then noise caves could be larger or more common below y=0? Maybe noise caves could generate more commonly inside the new mountains above a certain y-level? (Because carvers present in 1.16 wouldn't generate above the old surface level anyways.)

Old cave generation still doesn't generate properly above y=0 sadly, so this bug ticket will remain open until they properly re-added the old cave gen.

Beta 1.17.50 world generation continues to degrade.

Referring to seed 1600331202 under current beta with all experimental features enabled, weird spawn point is now moved almost 1k blocks from previous world spawn point.

World now is terra formed around coordinates x=1271 z=-485.
See pictures below.

Original cave system is missing/flooded, a pond is replacing partial desert/plains dungeon area overworld. Dungeon containing double skeleton spawner at x= 1271, y=46, z=-485 is still being destroyed by new world generation, being over written by stone, gravel, iron ore, coal ore. The 2 spawner cages are destroyed as are the 3 treasure chests.

Compare the terrain between 1.16.220 to 1.17.50 with experimental all engaged to see difference in world generation. Check dungeon generation between 1.16.220 to 1.17.50 given coordinates provided.

1.17.50 world generation is more broken than previous builds. Need to reassert original world carver then have noise carver work on world after previous world generation (including dungeons) is complete without overriding the original world carver algorithm.

Images based upon seed 1600331202 using Release 1.16.220 and 1.17.50 Beta

World Spawn 1.16.220

World Spawn 1.17.550 Beta

Over Dungeon world 1.16.220

Over Dungeon world 1.17.50

Dungeon 1.16.220

Dungeon destroyed in world generation 1.17.50 Beta

This is not resolved. I made this as an independent bug report and it was merged with this ticket. New caves destroys world generation prior to 1.16.230.56 and has continued to be an issue with the current 1.17.50. This is not a resolved issue. World generation should not change from 1.16.22002 initial carving, Caves and Cliffs should be supplemental to the original world generation and the carving of new caves and cliffs should apply to y=5 and below and y=90 and above and only supplement existing caves of initial world generation between y=5 to y=89 without over writing the initial world generation, including existing caves, dungeons, ravines, strongholds, mineshafts, etc.

Am also seeing this.  It's hugely problematic.  Caves with surface access are vital to early game experience, for ease of gathering resources.  The new cave generation makes building a mine that much harder as the new larger caves are harder to patch up to get deep enough to mi e strategically, so surface caves are even MORE important.

World generation issues are still present in 1.17.0.52 as described above for 1.17.0.50, known world spawn places such as dungeons, caves, slime chunks, ravines, etc are being destroyed by Caves and Cliffs world generation, spawn point location changed by Caves and cliffs.. all the above is happening with Caves and Cliffs toggle enabled or disabled, the amount of destruction of generated dungeons and other local varies by worstening severity with the caves and cliffs toggle on

Still broken in 1.17.0.56, same as 1.17.0.54 and 1.17.0.52 and 1.17.0.50, by creating a different spawn point, existing dungeons being destroyed as compared to 1.16.221. See world seed details above for recreation.

Still broken as described above in 1.17.10.20 beta.

Getting a little nervous, what with the release of Caves & Cliffs part 1 coming on the 8th.

The release version 1.17.0 is broken as is the current beta. See seed and coordinates posted above, spawners in known locations are removed by new world generation.

Just a note, it would be worth double checking that the seed is not changing when creating a new world, as described in MCPE-130765.

I'm checking the Double Skeleton Spawners at the coordinates above. When you implemented 1.17.0 patch, the dungeon with the double spawners no longer generate. This has been the case since the Beta where you introduced the Mountains. The underlying code is what you built the beta on, even with mountains and caves removed, the world generation under ground level is completely different. At the coordinates above, the adjacent cave formation has been restored, granted some areas of the cave are somewhat flooded more than before, but the Dungeon generation is not working as it was prior to 1.17. the double spawners us completely gone, filled in by various stone. The Skeleton Spawner at Y=11 3 chunks away is missing, the Slime Chunk that was 42 blocks from the Spawners is no longer a slime chunk.

Generation is broken.

Now if you said " world generation will be changing in 1.17 and will generate underground different than world surface on your known or familiar seeds" it wouldn't be an issue..

Keep your favorite worlds is what you stated live to the community on YouTube 2 months ago..

My favorite world is 1600331202.. I like building that seed several different ways.. I use that seed mainly for that double skeleton spawner.

Your world generation has destroyed the usefulness of that seed, the usefulness of my worlds.

If destroying dungeon generation is what is required for Caves and Cliffs, just be open and honest about it to the community in YouTube, instead if shadow destroying seeds that you stated would remain the same except adding enhancements to the existing caves and stacking mountains on world generation.

We are very much concerned with how an existing world created before the Caves and Cliffs update will update to the new terrain generation with the changes that are currently in Beta / Experimental, and we are working hard to minimise changes to seeds where possible. Like any major update that includes new world terrain features, an older seed will not be identical to a newer one due to the newer features that are included. Please be assured though, we are not trying to change world generation features arbitrarily, and appreciate bug reports like this that highlight potential issues, so that we can try and get them resolved where we can.

We are still looking into the issue mentioned here with the specific spawner location, and we now also tracking and investigating the issue describing dungeons / spawner rooms not generating in Experimental Toggle worlds here: MCPE-131197

If you have an example of Slime chunks not generating in the same place as before, please log them in a separate ticket, with clear steps to reproduce the problem, and if possible a comparison with the Experimental Toggle and without. (You can use the suggested template at aka.ms/BedrockBug.)

If you have any additional feedback or suggestions, please head over to aka.ms/CavesCliffsFeedback and update or upvote the appropriate thread there.

All the caves that are generating in current beta (1.17.20.20) are waterlogged.

I would wish to clarify for the devs that there is only one user on this thread concerned about how this problem is affecting seeds, spawner locations, and slimes from previous builds. I feel Bryttany is misunderstanding what the issue of this thread is and the devs seemed to exclusively respond to their comments.

The issue on this thread seems to be more of a focus that caves aren't generating on the surface correctly at all. You cannot get to caves without digging and it seems that caves you do find are always full of water. I'm still absolutely baffled that the devs haven't noticed that caves have been completely broken since this issue has been implemented. It's especially concerning that the only comment from the devs is directed towards someone who isn't even discussing the issue addressed on this thread.

What Slippi Meat fails to understand is that the Mojang mods who oversee submitted tickets, as well as the Mojang devs, moved my issue, which was created as a separate ticket, and added it to this issue/topic thread. I can only assume that they believe the issue of cave generation is also affecting the generation of slime chunks, spawner dungeons, chests in Desert Temples, etc are all being affected by the new world generation when the world is being expanded to y=352 to y=-64 and the 1.16 world generation is being broken by the Caves and Cliffs generation overwriting/replacing the generation of 1.16.

But I do agree that your concern of surface and intermediate cave generation seems different than dungeon and etc generation, both issues of which were changed universally on ALL SEEDS, not just the one I mention.. seen to stem from the new Cave and Cliff generation algorithm.

And I am sure 5hat you understand the 1 seed I mention repeatedly is a base seed of a known rarity of Minecraft where 2 spawners generate on the same y level, 3 blocks horizontally away from each other.. given this rarity, they can look at the generation code of 1.16, 1.15, 1.14, 1.13 and then look at the generation code of 1.17 and 1.18 to determine where the new code is damaging the old generation mechanics.

But because it is the same world generation error happening for your caves and my dungeons, it qualified for you crying about a Dev responding to me directly when I call out that they should have stated that world generation would significantly change anything below y=64, instead of stating "your worlds won't be affected".

The Dev was reassuring that the intent isn't to change world generation as we have become accustomed to, but to add enhancements to to generation we already knew. They were also reassuring that Caves and Cliffs coding is being looked at to minimize the destructive reconstruction of previous assets of world generation.. and the bug is being looked into.

5 min of thinking about world generation should have brought you to the same conclusion that the generation that is affecting your caves is affecting slime chunks, temple chests, dungeon spawners, etc.. it is the same issue, and it is game breaking.

So instead of backhanded slams against me and the devs, I believe apologies should come forth from you to everyone on the thread and let's focus on getting the bug squashed.

PS, the issue is still present in 1.17.10 and Beta 1.17.20.22.

I assume what Bryttany means is that underground features no longer generate in the same locations as they used to (to be fair I also haven't seen any dungeons in the new caves yet).

However;

With the new cave generation I'd argue that preserving structure location should not be a priority at all, they need to generate yes (fix the cave gen first), but preserving the locations of structures from old seeds will only be a waste of the dev's time as the new caves have vastly different shapes, sizes and generation, meaning that dungeons from an old seed could end up floating in the middle of a giant cavern in 1.18.

What the dev's do need to worry about, is that dungeons do still generate, and that they are still grounded / buried and not fully exposed to air. But cave generation still needs to be fixed before they worry about dungeons.

In terms of slime chunks and temple chests, the overriding of structures like a Desert Temple should definitely not be a thing and is indeed a big issue, but for slime chunks, again preserving their location shouldn't be a priority (I'm not sure why they'd be changed but still). As long as they are still there, there is no real issue.

TL:DR, the dev's should not be worried about preserving old feature locations, they should only focus on ensuring that all the old features still generate in the new caves once they have fixed the cave generation. 

It looks like lots are experiencing this. The caves still look cool though, It's just almost all are waterlogged. BTW, I have also noticed that there was little to no Iron ore in all caves. Anyway, I don't want to upset anyone over my opinion and experience. If you are upset about my comment, I'm sorry. Thanks for reading!

You are totally right about iron ore and waterlogged caves 😃

It seems that all the caves and ravines that are generating at the surface are being completely destroyed or being replaced by giant, flooded caves, as i can show below.

Agreed, I have found some dry caves DEEP underground though. simply just go in a water cave, go as low in it as possible, and mine down. chances are, there may be a dry cave underneath. However, there should be caves above the ground that are dry but there are none for some reason, glad It's being fixed though! As I've said before, there was little to no star-damb Iron in the stupid caves, especially in the waterlogged ones and the it started pissing me off when I saw a ton of diamonds that I couldn't mine. **Inhales, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Anyway, just thought I would let you guys know. Thanks!🙂

Caves are no longer flooded (mostly), however, the old caves and ravine are still not generating on the surface.

Getting back to the bug mentioned in the description, could you confirm if this is an ongoing issue, as World generation has changed significantly since the 1.17.30.23 beta (behind the Caves & Cliffs Experimental Toggle).

It would be great to have an example seed, with expected vs actual results observed.

Old caves are much less likely to generate than in previous versions, and old cave entrances have not been found at all. But to prove that the old caves are still generated, I will give a seed with cordinates (the cave is completely above 0).

-300105131
322 44 385

Check version: 1.17.30.25

I can confirm that i have also not seen any above ground surface ravines on the beta in a VERY LONG time. Anyone else having the same issues still?

It's practically the same with surface caves as well. 

Same here. Everyone who's playing on the same version number with the same toggle on is having the issue. It's definitely improved. Playable for me and my partner because I think the new cave entrances are super cool.

Whenever classic ravines and cave entrances make their return, it would be nice though.

Cave entrances seem pretty common on the surface now, there's still not many small entrances but there are plenty of big ones, not sure if this is fixed or not yet.

Changed the description to elaborate on which caves that is still affected. Currently, noodle caves, ravines, and old classic caves aren't generating correctly on the surface in the latest beta.

@unknown

You added version 1.18.0.20 but in version 1.18.0.20 I cannot find this problem. Caves are generated above 0. Example of seed and coordinates:

Seed -2084328283
Coordinates 1152 74 409

I can also use the command in the report to easily find a cave just by accident.

Why do you think that the problem is not solved in version 1.18.0.20?

Pre caves and cliffs there was an abundance of cave entrances, while there are a handful of the smaller caves around now, there isn't a lot. Perhaps that's what Mojang wants?

I'll remove 1.18.0.20 for now

It is possible to change the parity. However, this is clearly a different problem. Flying in the world, I watched the outcrops of caves both under the sea and just in the world. When the Java version comes out, I will compare the generation with the Java version and let here know if there is a difference in the generation of the old caves. 🙂

i've been playing the betas for a while, and i would like to share my experiences at the new cave generation:

• Surface cave carves are very hard and uncommon to find, and they most of the times have dead ends very close to the very start of cave carver then.

• like what used to happen in the past betas, they mostly was flooded with water (but this time, it's not the entire cave, it's must at the end of the cave) wich doesn't seem like a cool generatio of the cave carvers in my vision. i would like to see more opinions about the cave carvers generation on these betas so we can confirm more if they are really generating wrong or not.

MCPE-146681 Cave entrances generation
Since the modernization of the caves it has become more difficult to access it not like the previous updates as it has become impossible to find a normal entrance to the caves in order to explore them, even after repairing them it is still very rare.

*The entrances to the caves are:
A large opening that leads to a huge cave (when you have started a new world it will be difficult to enter and mining even if it will be full of monsters)
Or a crescent-shaped entrance from the outside and then descending in a narrow slope and difficult to walk inside (which causes some resentment to the players due to the difficulty of moving in it and mining, especially in the beginning) it is closed or submerged in water
Very rarely do you find entrances in the form of ancient caves, even if you find them closed or submerged in water, and do not lead to other caves as deep as the previous ones. Or it may lead you to another exit, instead of going down and branching into other caves

You can enter any world in update 1.17 and you will notice how the entrances are spread out and easy to notice and find, and are connected and you can go down with them and find other caves connected together

There should be a variety between huge entrances and entrances from the caves of Noodles and ancient caves and enable you to reach other caves like update 1.17 instead of being closed or filled with water

In addition, you cannot find ravine from the surface like the previous updat

Watch this clip talking about the entrance problem in 2:14
https://youtu.be/ewBtFw4lCcM

Steps to Reproduce:
1.new world seed -1645245311
2./tp -433 68 295
3./tp -257 75 679
4./tp -612 74 745
5./tp -319 66 256
6./tp -372 71 338
7./tp -296 64 1229
8./tp -11 73 1864
9./tp 591 86 1619
10./tp 641 71 1589
Observed Results:
You will find that the entrances to caves are closed or flooded

Expected Results:
It should not be immersed in water or closed. It should extend to the bottom and branch off into other caves

New noise cave generation is consistent with Java Edition; however, cave carvers and ravines are still inconsistent with Java Edition. Cave carvers still seem to fail to completely generate within 1.18.0.27. Whereas ravines seem to be never present, at least at the surface level. I would say this is a good opportunity to make cave carvers and ravines consistent with Java Edition, as they seem to fail in generation anyways.
Java Edition

Bedrock Edition

Cave Carvers - Bedrock

Cave carvers that do generate connected to others, overgenerate resulting in a swiss cheese look with each section usually generating short in length.

Cave Carvers - Overgeneration

Seed: -806427813

Coordinates: -4917 119 881

Affects 1.18. This needs to be fixed as soon as possible.

Please fix this before the next hotfix.

Yes, I've noticed this bug in the latest beta (1.18.10.22) It's quite bad. It has not been fixed yet.

Still not fixed 1.18.10.22 beta. I won't play Bedrock edition as long as it isn't fixed.

Still in the latest beta, 1.18.10.26

• I've noticed that the water lakes that generate on cave carvers always generate at y=62, resulting at cave carvers-tunnels generating at y=61 and deeper to generate flooded, or simply not generate unless they are connected to New/1.18 caves

• Unlike caves, Ravines literally doesn't generate at the surface level

please fix this as soon as possible

Still in 1.18.10.27

Affects 1.18.20.21, probably will affect full 1.18.10 as well...

Affects 1.18.20.24

Still in 1.18.20.29. And 1.18.20.30 preview. Also seems to affect Java

Affects 1.18.12

Affects 1.18.30. 

I wonder if it is the new terrain generation system or noise cave generation that compromises cave carvers and ravines.

Affects 1.18.30.30, 1.18.30.31

Affects 1.19.0.24/25

Still an issue via 9/27/2022

Affects 1.19.30